Logo text For Chris Brancato,co-creator and showrunner for Godfather of Harlem, if there is a show that can hold a mirror to some of the volatile issues gripping America today, the MGM+ series nowin its fourth season just may be the one.

That wasnt, however, intentional. Brancato and co-creator Paul Eckstein werent out to make political statements with the series, but it so happened that the Godfather of Harlem chronicles the latter part of the life of legendary Harlem gangster Ellsworth Raymond Bumpy Johnson (starring Oscar winner Forest Whitaker) during the chaotic 1960s. This was a time of not just high-profile crime families ruling the streets of New York, but also a time of civil unrest and the height of the Civil Rights Movement. There were leaders like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. espousing his doctrine of passive protest regarding the injustices that plagued Black Americans for hundreds of years. Then in Harlem, there was the fiery rhetoric of former Nation of Islam member El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (aka Malcolm X). The 60s also gave rise to the self-sufficient Black Panther Party throughout the nation, and topics that seem to be taboo in 2025 were front and center in the 60s.

So far, in season four of Godfather of Harlem, issues of gentrification, the reclusive membership of union labor (the union didnt want any Black workers working on development projects in Harlem) and corporal punishment in public schools that taught predominantly minority students have been the focus. Also introduced isthe little-known New York Chapter of the Black Panther Party, and the member who would give birth to someone considered one of the greatest hip-hop artists of our time, Tupac Shakur.

Where there is a collision of crime, race relations, family drama and civil rights, there is also a writers palette laid out for some great storytelling, Brancato says. But the stories should be told with a sprinkle of modern flair, which he believes has aided in the shows success.

The Hollywood Reporter recently caught up with Brancato to talk about season four, what gangsters have in common with the Civil Rights Movement, how women began to exert themselves in the turbulent 60s, why the music is so contemporary for a period piece and how the telling of Bumpys story may eventually open the door for another series about a Harlem gangster just as notorious as Bumpy.

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Are there challenges or worries about keeping Godfather of Harlem going in light of the political landscape? The show confronts racial and diversity issues that may be seen as a no-no in some political circles today.

Thats a great question. A couple of things: first of all, both Hoodlum (starring Laurence Fishburne) and Godfather of Harlem are about Bumpy Johnson. Bumpy Johnson sent my best friends grandmotherto college. His name was Paul Eckstein [Godfather of Harlem co-creator] and he has since passed. His grandmother lived in Harlem and was sent to secretarial schoolby Bumpy Johnson. Paul was always saying to me, You guys have Michael Corleone, the Latins have Tony Montana they both were played by Al Pacino wheres something about Bumpy? Where is there something for me?

So he got me interested in Bumpy Johnsons real life, which led to the movie [Hoodlum] some 30 years ago. Then some producers came to me and Paul about seven to eight years ago and said, What about doing Bumpy, not in the 1930s where he got his career start, but in the 60s? So Paul and I started to talk about what that show might be, and out of that came Godfather of Harlem, which to our minds is the collision of organized crime and civil rights at a very unique time in American history.

As such, the show is not only charting Bumpys evolution as a gangster, and his relentless dealings with the Italian mob, but also his progress as someone who is taking in the issues of the day in terms of civil rights, and of course, there was a severe left-right divide at the time. In todays world, we havent since the late 60s faced a time of a greater political divide; a greater seeming difference between right and left. As far as Im concerned, our show tries to examine today through the prism of the past. We deal with things like racism, protests, questions of militancy versus doing it through the system. A lot of the things that people consider radical today, we discuss. I think the fact that we set it in the past gives us a little cover. In other words, if were writing about it right in the here and now, there might be more of a chance that the current political winds would work against us.

I believe that between right and left there is common ground, a lot more than people might think. I dont intend to let anything thats happening in the real world affect our storytelling. We are not doing a school lesson here; this is a fun TV show to watch. But for me, the civil rights aspect of it always put meat on the bone, or always made the show a little more nutritious than just to shoot em up.

Amid the violence of Bumpy Johnson and his conflict with Vincent Gigante (Vincent DOnofrio), head of the Italian Genovese crime family, amid the upheaval of the Civil Rights Movement and Black Panthers, this show still pivots to family. Is it fair to say the family element of these characters is just as important as the conflict in this series?

Look, I think were all given the baggage of whatever respective upbringing and past we have. But I think there is so much common ground. Bumpy is a family man, Chin [Gigante] is a family man. Theyre both concerned with daughters. In this season in particular, Chins daughter, Stella [Lucy Fry], and Bumpys daughter, Elise [Antoinette Crowe-Legacy], are essentially claiming their own part of the world in the late 60s Elise in the Black Panthers, Stella within the Genovese crime family. These are two really important women roles in this season, and Bumpy is caught right between the two, and so is Chin.

When you get down to it, family, friends, faith all of these things we share as human beings. The need to be loved, the need to be heard doesnt matter the color of your skin; we are all the same in that way. This show has to create enemies and opposites, but I think we have shown, both in previous seasons and in this season, that the dividing line between Chin and Bumpy is kind of razor thin.

You have a lot of historical data to work with, but the show is also modernized with a hip-hop soundtrack among other techniques. What would you say is your secret sauce to giving a new twist about mobsters in 60s Harlem a seemingly fresh view?

When coming up with this show, I tried to say: what are two things that dont seem like they belong in the same sentence? In this case, its organized crime and civil rights. You normally wouldnt expect those two things to be together, and yet, when a group is marginalized Irish, Italian, German, African American crime is the way you climb the economic ladder. Im not saying the Irish situation is the same as the African American or the Italian. Theyre all entirely different, and African Americans came to this country, for the most part, not of their own will. That said, crime as the means of advancement has a long history in this country. [Honor de Balzac] said: Behind every great fortune lies a great crime. At the same time, going hand-in-hand with that is those marginalized groups and trying to become part of the American tapestry in fabric. That is civil rights.

In any show I do, the secret sauce is trying to create something where you go: Wow! This feels different, this feels special! Oftentimes, its by colliding two things together that at first dont seem like they should be together, but then you realize, Oh yeah, thesetwo things are part of the same thing. Im very, very pleased with the audience of the Godfather, which is pretty evenly split between Black and white viewers. The show kind of has a large viewership. People just like the show, and they like farce. I mean, who doesnt like farce?

Ive seen some fans comments disliking the hip-hop elements of the soundtrack in a period piece such as the Godfather of Harlem. But early on this season, you introduce the New York chapter of the Black Panthers and one of the outspoken leaders of this group of is a very young Afeni Shakur, who would eventually give birth to Tupac Shakur. What do you believe this music adds in telling the story? What does it take away, if anything?

Look, this is historical fiction where were drawing upon all sorts of real sources and creating the concoction that is meant to entertain, and to be, in some ways, the lie that tells the truth. Meaning, we werent there for Bumpys conversations. We werent there for Afeni Shakurs conversations, and yet we have to make them up for the purposes of the show. So it was important for us to say, Hey, were rebooting the show a little bit. Malcolm X has gone from the show. So, how do we do that? Well, we bring in Frank Lucas [Rome Flynn], who the audience has been asking about for a number of years, and we start the Black Panther stuff. And then, as we were doing our research, we were like, Oh my God, Tupacs mother was part of the Panthers!

Not a lot is known about the New York Panthers. Not much was written about them compared to the Chicago and Oakland chapters. But we decided, lets tip the hat to this icon of popular music: Tupac.

To get back to your original question, what happened at the very beginning was this: We were like, Okay, this show is set a long time ago.We want to make the show relevant to younger audiences, 20 and 30 year olds are watching the show. Forest and I talked about it a lot. Lets interview various hip-hop producers and see who might want to create original music for our show, which will drop into appropriate spots.

I certainly understand why a certain percentage of the audience might say,Why are they putting in out-of-step contemporary music in this old period piece? We did it to make you understand there is a connection between today and yesterday. We interviewed five or six incredible producers, and Swizz [Beatz] was the guy who made us feel like he was the right one for this show. I remember Forest calling him and he said, Swizz, I know youve got a lot of stuff going on, this has gotta be right up top; it cant be some second thought thing. And Swizz said, No, no, no, Im in! Of course, he and his team have been amazing, and so I hope even if people have a problem with contemporary music in a period show, they will respect why we did it.

Left to right: Erik LaRay Harvey as Chance, Rome Flynn as Frank Lucas and Elvis Nolasco as Nat Pettigrew in season four. MGM+ For many who watched the third season, the episodes that showed the last days of Malcolm X and the detailed reenactment of his assassination was very intense and moving. Why did you decide to continue the storyline of how Malcolm X continued to impact many African Americans in Harlem months or years after his death?

Let me show you something. [Writers note: Brancato walks with his camera to his office wall to show an award plaque hanging on it.] This show [received] very little critical attention of which I actually think it deserves, and I really think Forest deserves an Emmy nomination for his work. But in my apartment here in New York, I dont have anything hanging up that has to do with the business. This is my place basically not think about the business, except for one thing, and its this: The Writers Guild gave me and my co-writer Michael Panes this nomination for best script for that Malcolm episode, Our Black Shining Prince. This was delicious! This was us up against Succession and the Star Wars one that everybody likes, Andor. And our little show made it to the nominations for best television script. I thought, weve really touched a nerve with this particular episode and this subject matter. So, Im glad you enjoyed it.

We needed to bring Elise [Antoinette Crowe-Legacy] as a follower of Malcolm into some kind of important storyline. Many of the people who were part of Malcolms Muslim Mosque, Inc., became Black Panthers as things heated up in this country. You would find many people who were Malcolm adherence, and we wanted to bring Elise into that orbit. We thought there was some good storytelling to do in that realm. Also, we put Bumpy in this delicious position; he actually respects what the Panthers are asking for and what theyre all about. At the same time, he doesnt want his daughter in that line of fire. Hes actually walking a fine line because hes a brave man, and he himself at that age might have joined the Panthers, but he doesnt want his kid in there. As a parent, you can respect that a father doesnt want his daughter in the line of fire thats what needs to be feared.

We see in the first four episodes that Bumpy is finally trying to become a straight up businessman and leave the heroin game to the Italian mob. Once in, however, its hard to get out. He has dreams of building up Harlem again to have a second renaissance for the community. Now you throw in another wrench for Bumpy with the New York origin story of Frank Lucas (Rome Flynn) who, after Bumpy, is the most notorious Black gangster/drug dealer in New York.

Exactly! Please remind me never to write a show about a drug dealer who spends the whole season not selling drugs (Laughs). That was very difficult for us. But we wanted that challenge. We wanted Bumpys promise to Malcolm that he was going to try to do better for the community and do better himself to ring true this year. And that, in the wake of Malcolms death, he was going to try to honor that. But guess what? Its fucking hard! Its hard to not to sell the products that the customer demands, and unfortunately heroin is one of those products that at that time customers were demanding.

So, Bumpy tries to go it alone. His daughter says to him, Look, youre exploiting the other devices people have: gambling, women. But the fact is that him doing this at all gave us an interesting break from having to do super drug-related stories, and also allowed us to focus more on what attempts Bumpy would have made in that era to try to go as legit as possible, and all the things that would line up against him in doing so.

Then, of course, we knew we were bringing in Frankie because people have been asking for several seasons Whens Frank coming? Whens Frank coming? We found this kid, Rome Flynn, who I really think is a great discovery. When I saw him read, Im like, Okay, hes pretty, but he aint a pretty boy. Hes going to be able to get down and dirty here, and thats what we did all season long. So, we are pleased with Romes overall performance and it shakes up the show a little bit. Were used to seeing the first 10 minutes of American Gangster where Denzel [Washington as Frank Lucas] has Clarence Williams III who was a dear friend of mine cradled in his arms and hes saying, Goodbye, Bumpy. Of course, they were connected in some way towards Bumpys end of life. But were suggesting that at the beginning, it wasnt all wine and roses. It was a little surly at the top.

In real life, Bumpy lived only about three more years after Malcolm Xs death. With that knowledge, how many more seasons are in you to tell his story? And if that day comes to end stories about Bumpys life, is it possible to do a spinoff about Frank Lucas in the same format?

First of all, they tell me this show premiered very, very well [this season], and Im really grateful to the fanbase for this show for sticking around such a long time between seasons and then coming back in full force.

So, that seems to indicate knock on wood, because I never know for sure until they tell me that there will be a fifth season. Bumpy died in 68 and were in 66 right now. So, the fact is that Bumpy can run his course as a character, depending on Forest and depending on the appetite of the network. But yes, to your point, can this story continue as Godfather of Harlem but now the godfather is Frank Lucas? Yeah, I think so. I hope so.

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Godfather of Harlem releases new season four episodes Sundays at 9 p.m. on MGM+.